Curse

fireflyry · Feb 07, 2008, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Oh well.

Guess it's back to secondaries for a viable self-heal.

Pvp4lyfe · Feb 07, 2008, 05:59 AM // 05:59

its called heart of shadow, feigned nutreality, deaths charge, deaths retreat and.... iono combine ur self healing with monk spells or sumthing

Neverending Silence · Feb 07, 2008, 06:01 AM // 06:01

anet guys need to make up their minds....either keep the dang sins nerfed or let them be sheesh

fireflyry · Feb 07, 2008, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pvp4lyfe

its called heart of shadow, feigned nutreality, deaths charge, deaths retreat and.... iono combine ur self healing with monk spells or sumthing

Sorry man but your clearly either new to the class or bad.

Shadow Refuge was the only viable self-heal for Sin, with the possible exception of FN and it's conditions being down time, without going to a secondary outside the Sin line especially in PvP.

Imo those other skills just don't cut the mustard.

Just seems weird they buffed SR and allowed builds to use secondaries for motives other than a decent self-heal only to make it crap a few months later.

Pvp4lyfe · Feb 07, 2008, 07:27 AM // 07:27

i mean use those skills listed as emergancy healers. the refuge update is absolutly not going to make SR extinct, it can still be used easily

fireflyry · Feb 07, 2008, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Ummm....no.

There are vastly superior secondary self-heals which, in the past and again now, has steered most Sins towards choosing a secondary class with a large focus on the self-heal on offer.

The buff to SR gave many freedom from such restraints allowing a pure sin build with secondary focus on other goals such as IAS, Interupts, etc, etc.

If you still think SR is viable when compared to other secondary self-heals...well.....

SR is back in the trash, deny all you want.

Stormlord Alex · Feb 07, 2008, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Even before this 'stealth-nerf' (more likely, a mistake on A-Net's part), Shadow Refuge was worthless trash that never touched my bar.

ensoriki · Feb 07, 2008, 02:10 PM // 14:10

lol they tried to make it good and made it worse

Sir Pandra Pierva · Feb 07, 2008, 09:46 PM // 21:46

could some one explain to me how shadow refuge was good?
I usually dont ever need self heal and if I do its just the crappy feigned or /mo for restful breeze

Bobby2 · Feb 07, 2008, 10:10 PM // 22:10

OK so let's have a look

- requires heavy Shadow Arts investment to offer significant(-ish) regen. As the Shadow line is bad overall, this is a big minus.
- has a 1sec casting time, which is a big risk to take in the place where you'd seemingly want to use it (in combat).
- 4 or 6 sec duration wasn't really an issue. We're generally talking 32HP here. In a way, the shorter duration is a BUFF because the (conditional!) health spike arrives sooner.
- Awesomely bad on defense. The condition for the health spike can't be met, while the regen is not enough to justify the casting time.
- Those who value self-heals tend to go /Mo for Restful Breeze, SR's main competition. Comparing them is just... unfair. That says enough.
- On a personal note: it takes up a skill slot that could have been used for something far more interesting, though this is personal preference above all else.

Shadow Refuge died a long time ago, and despite ANets recent attempts at reanimation, the trash can remains the only right place for this disaster.

moriz · Feb 07, 2008, 10:19 PM // 22:19

the ultimate problem is shadow refuge is its design itself. typically, when the assassin needs to heal, he should be running away. keep attacking just to gain that heal spike at the end is just foolish most of the time. basically, the heal at the end usually never occurs.

the 6 second version therefore, it generally better. for shadow refuge to be good, it needs to have longer duration and less conditional heal.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Feb 07, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

exactly
12charthingie

Bobby2 · Feb 07, 2008, 11:13 PM // 23:13

It's an arguable point. 'Twas still crap. But if they reduced the casting time to 1/4, it would make a lot more sense.

/12charthingynotneeded

Draginvry · Feb 08, 2008, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Shadow Refuge was always crap because it is an in-battle heal with a one sec casting time. There never was a reason to use it when you can get the same healing from a secondary without the conditional requirement or possibility of being shattered.

For the love of God, six second duration and 1/4 casting time please. Then, maybe there will be a reason to use this skill. Or at least keep the one sec casting time, but make it a Skill rather than an Enchantment.

RadaArashi · Feb 08, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

I personally don't mourn Shadow Refuge much because I only used it on one build in PvP, which is solved by adding Feigned Neutrality.

For everything else I relied on Earth Prayers or Restful Breeze

Sir Pandra Pierva · Feb 08, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

agreed with that one there

Am I A Good Sin · Feb 09, 2008, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Well used in the right build it can work. 1 thing would be something like:
1. Enchant removal is there and ur build relies on enchants. U need a quick recharge and a heal wouldn't hurt.
2. Cover enchant for main enchant. If ur good enough u know how to time it right.
3. Works great with an AoD build that I use and won't tell.
4. Dervish could make good use of it.

I'm not sure what the nerf was so my reasons may not be viable so don't flame them. If someone would can the post the nerf?

DDL · Feb 09, 2008, 01:00 AM // 01:00

nerf was from 6 secs of regen to 4. Health gain on attack may have been reduced too, I'm not sure...though honestly, that health gain was fairly underutilised anyway.

The Meth · Feb 09, 2008, 01:11 AM // 01:11

People were using shadow refuge before?

In comparison to warrior and most dervish self heals it still heals for more at a comparable attribute btw.

tehshadowninjar · Feb 09, 2008, 06:11 AM // 06:11

I always thought Shadow Refuge was a pretty good skill. If it's 4 second duration, they should at least make it 1/4 or 2/4 cast time. -.- Because I used to use Shadow Refuge or my main heals during combat. Feigned Neutrality ends if you attack, same with Restful Breeze.